This has Been on My Mind For The Longest Time

[Hakudamashi]

I don't mean to sound rude or cruel but...

These diseases that are passed down genetically, like Down's Syndrome, Cystic Fibrosis, and Huntington's Disease, that can only exist, as far as I know, by passing them on from parent to child.

Wouldn't the better idea be to let these family trees die off rather than prolonging them with medications and therapy so we don't end up with children who have to needlessly suffer when they can't afford the treatments?

[jkid101094]

That's water no one wants to dip their toes into.

Besides it's not that easy. Just because you carry the gene that causes the disease doesn't mean you have it. It'd be impossible to quarantine every "sick" person.

Not to mention that if we're killing off everyone with disabilities and oddities it means I go too. :U

[Elija2]

I don't mean to sound rude or cruel but people with genetic disorders don't deserve to live.

Not to mention that if we're killing off everyone with disabilities and oddities it means I go too. :U

On second thought...

[Hakudamashi]

That's water no one wants to dip their toes into.

Besides it's not that easy. Just because you carry the gene that causes the disease doesn't mean you have it. It'd be impossible to quarantine every "sick" person.

Not to mention that if we're killing off everyone with disabilities and oddities it means I go too. :U

It is some damn murky waters

But at the same time, I'm thinking of, just what if these diseases were stopped early...

Also, you don't have to kill them, just ask them not to...reproduce...
God I can't argue this without sounding like a complete asshole.

[Elija2]

You can't force people to not procreate.

[jkid101094]

You can't force people to not procreate.

Give 'em the snip.

[shadowDOESrock]

You can't force people to not procreate.

Should.

[Elija2]

Give 'em the snip.

If a parent wants to have a child with Down's syndrome or whatever then they have that right.

[Ioshyriku]

You don't sound like an asshole, what you said sounds more like pity.
Who knows, maybe in the future there will be a cure for them, or maybe these deseases will die off on their own.
Just remember that everyone deserves love, not letting them reproduce will take that from them.

[Hakudamashi]

If a parent wants to have a child with Down's syndrome or whatever then they have that right.

Sure, but like, that call doesn't affect just them...

You don't sound like an asshole, what you said sounds more like pity.
Who knows, maybe in the future there will be a cure for them, or maybe these deseases will die off on their own.
Just remember that everyone deserves love, not letting them reproduce will take that from them.

Great, now I feel bad for spading my cats...

[Elija2]

Sure, but like, that call doesn't affect just them...

Who else does it affect? Their unborn child?

[Meme Master Flex]

I don't mean to sound rude or cruel but...

These diseases that are passed down genetically, like Down's Syndrome, Cystic Fibrosis, and Huntington's Disease, that can only exist, as far as I know, by passing them on from parent to child.

Wouldn't the better idea be to let these family trees die off rather than prolonging them with medications and therapy so we don't end up with children who have to needlessly suffer when they can't afford the treatments?

Oh my god, I've said this for the longest time.

[shadowDOESrock]

Utilitarianism is the right way.

[Hakudamashi]

Who else does it affect? Their unborn child?

Um...yes?
That child is gonna grow up and become a man or woman that has to put up with this disease, and God help them if they can't find the funds to get proper treatment...

[Elija2]

Um...yes?
That child is gonna grow up and become a man or woman that has to put up with this disease, and God help them if they can't find the funds to get proper treatment...

I don't know why you think that having a genetic disorder means you can't have a good life.

[Hakudamashi]

I can also have a good life with lung cancer

That's not my point, at all.

[Elija2]

Then what's your point? That we shouldn't let people with genetic disorders live because they might not be able to afford treatment?

[Hakudamashi]

My point is not to line them up in a shooting range and kill them all if that's what you're asking.

I'm asking, if you guys think humanity would be better off if we didn't prolong the life of people with these disorders and instead allowed them to die off, cause most of these diseases are fatal.

And no, I don't have anything against the disabled, nor am I asking anyone to suddenly take up arms and stop helping the disabled.
I'm just asking, to think back some years into the past, if doctors never started trying to treat them, and these bloodlines died off ages ago, wouldn't things be better today?

[Elija2]

Would humanity be better without these disorders? Sure. Should we refuse these people the opportunity to live because of this? Hell no. People with genetic disorders are still able to lead perfectly happy lives. If you went up to someone with Down's syndrome and asked them if they wanted to die, do you think they'd say yes? How does humanity benefit from letting these people die?

[Hakudamashi]

You start your point saying Humanity would be better without disorders, then end it saying humanity wouldn't be better without disorders.

I'm having trouble understanding you.

[Elija2]

I'm saying that a world without these disorders would be ideal, but it's not worth letting people die for.

[Hakudamashi]

But...people die...

[Elija2]

But...people die...

If that's the attitude you want to have, why do you care that these disorders exist?

[Hakudamashi]

Uuhh
I care cause I know people who are unhappy with their disorders?

[Elija2]

Uuhh
I care cause I know people who are unhappy with their disorders?

Do you think those people would rather be dead?

[Hakudamashi]

Um...No?
And they don't wanna pass it on to their kids either.
They choose to adopt or stay single.

[Elija2]

Okay but why do you want to stop other people from having children with disabilities?

[Meme Master Flex]

Okay but why do you want to stop other people from having children with disabilities?

Isn't the answer to that obvious?

[Ioshyriku]

As some diseases die, others appear, so trying to stop them from multiplying is quite useless.
The best we can do is help them be happy.

[Hakudamashi]

Okay but why do you want to stop other people from having children with disabilities?

...
Because you're giving something that...sucks, to a person that has no say on whether they want to live with it or not?

D-Do you know children that are "happy" to have disorders?

As some diseases die, others appear, so trying to stop them from multiplying is quite useless.
The best we can do is help them be happy.

Well yeah, diseases in general, but genetic diseases, quite frankly, can be stopped...

[shadowDOESrock]

[Elija2]

...
Because you're giving something that...sucks, to a person that has no say on whether they want to live with it or not?

D-Do you know children that are "happy" to have disorders?

Obviously nobody (or very few people) are happy to have a disorder, but it's not like a life with a genetic disability is a life not worth having. Sure it sucks to have a disability but they can still lead happy lives. You're acting like being born with Down's syndrome is the end of the world.

[Hakudamashi]

Well, it actually is the end of the world for some people, especially those who are also poor as they die at age 12 =/

[Elija2]

Well, it actually is the end of the world for some people, especially those who are also poor as they die at age 12 =/

But...people die...

[Hakudamashi]

That they do. And this death, and others like it, can be avoided, if people with these genetic issues don't procreate.

[Elija2]

So your method of avoiding these deaths is...by making sure these people are never born in the first place?

[Hakudamashi]

Lemme ask you something.
If you got a cold, do you, or do you not call your friends and tell them they can't come over?

And to answer your question, yes, that is exactly what I just said.

[Elija2]

Lemme ask you something.
If you got a cold, do you, or do you not call your friends and tell them they can't come over?

Uh, I guess?

And to answer your question, yes, that is exactly what I just said.

Well that's a terrible solution.

[Hakudamashi]

Uh, I guess?

You guess you do, or you guess you don't?

[Elija2]

I guess I do.

[Hakudamashi]

And why is that?

[Elija2]

Because I'm sick and I don't want to hang out with people.

But I'm guessing you were expecting me to say that I don't want to get my friends sick and that this is somehow analogous to not wanting people to get genetic disorders. The problem is that your analogy sucks. You're comparing not letting my friends come over to not letting a person be born.

[Hakudamashi]

Yeah, no.
My point is responsibility.

If you got a cold, a disease that you are aware you can spread, and know how it's spread, but still will let people near you when it's in your power to send them away, Then you're a douche.

If you got any ailment that you're aware of, and you are aware you can spread it to others,and how to spread it, you have a responsibility to yourself, and especially to others, to take the precautions necessary to not infect those around you.

Got a cold? Don't sneeze on people
Got a Flu? Don't let people drink from your glass
Got a disease that transfers via sweat? Then don't sweat near people
Got an STD? Don't have sex
Got an incurable disease that can only be passed down to your child? Then don't have a child

When you have something contagious, you know it's contagious, but still choose to risk infecting others, then quite frankly, you're a douchebag.

[Elija2]

Letting a child be born with Down's syndrome is not at all comparable to any of those things.

You're seriously calling everyone who has ever given birth to a child with disabilities a douchebag?

[Hakudamashi]

...Yes.

If they're aware ofc.

[Elija2]

So you think that willingly giving birth to a child with any kind of ailment is unethical? Does that include people born with autism? What about people born with physical defects? They should all just be aborted?

[Hakudamashi]

They can't be aborted if they weren't concieved in the first place...

[Elija2]

They can't be aborted if they weren't concieved in the first place...

You won't know if they'll have a birth defect or not until they're conceived.

[Hakudamashi]

When you sneeze on somebody when you have a cold, you won't know if they get a cold till they get a cold.

If they don't, that's great, you're still a dick.

[Elija2]

So basically nobody should ever conceive because their child might be born with a birth defect.

[Hakudamashi]

I hope you do know not everyone ever has the genes for these diseases.

A trip to the doctor can tell you if you have the trait or not.
Or have the people that do show symptoms not conceive.

[Elija2]

Disorders like Down's syndrome aren't usually hereditary. Most parents that have a child with Down's syndrome show no signs of it in their genes.

You think that if someone has a 25% of conceiving a child with a disorder that they shouldn't be allowed to conceive? That's crazy.

[Hakudamashi]

These diseases are caused by a mutation in your chromosomes, everyone has a chance of getting them spontaneously, but when the trait exists in the family, the chances are much, much higher.
If you know you got the trait, then don't
If you know you got the disease, then don't

How difficult is it to not get a woman pregnant?

[Elija2]

Dude, look it up. 99% of Down's syndrome cases are completely random.

It's not that it's difficult to not get a woman pregnant, it's that what you're saying is literally insane. You think that people shouldn't have children if there is a chance their child will be born with a disorder, but using that logic nobody should be able to have children. All because you think that giving birth to a child with a disorder is cruel when in fact many people with genetic disorders lead perfectly happy lives.

[Hakudamashi]

Yup, your statistics sure beat out my anecdotal experiences.

Guess I'll just shut my trap.

[jkid101094]

It took you four pages to get Wind to quit. It took GoW one post.

Sonic Zone: 0
GoW: 1

[Hakudamashi]

Shameless advertising is shameless.

[Elija2]

I guess they're more used to dealing with Haku's bullshit.